<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: BKRT Essay: on fog nets and cities</title>
	<atom:link href="http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/04/bkrt-essay-on-fog-nets-and-cities/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/04/bkrt-essay-on-fog-nets-and-cities/</link>
	<description>building nothing out of something</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 01:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: zibo - mammoth // building nothing out of something</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/04/bkrt-essay-on-fog-nets-and-cities/#comment-2810</link>
		<dc:creator>zibo - mammoth // building nothing out of something</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=33#comment-2810</guid>
		<description>[...] which I think I&#8217;m being fair in saying that most westerners have never heard of (when we made this map, which shows only cities project to have over 5 million people by 2025, for our entry to the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] which I think I&#8217;m being fair in saying that most westerners have never heard of (when we made this map, which shows only cities project to have over 5 million people by 2025, for our entry to the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: cloud skippers - mammoth // building nothing out of something</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/04/bkrt-essay-on-fog-nets-and-cities/#comment-711</link>
		<dc:creator>cloud skippers - mammoth // building nothing out of something</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=33#comment-711</guid>
		<description>[...] also mammoth's own sloppily documented entry to [bracket]]   This entry was written by rholmes, posted on July 31, 2009 at 12:27 pm, filed under [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] also mammoth&#8217;s own sloppily documented entry to [bracket]]   This entry was written by rholmes, posted on July 31, 2009 at 12:27 pm, filed under [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: on finance - mammoth // building nothing out of something</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/04/bkrt-essay-on-fog-nets-and-cities/#comment-130</link>
		<dc:creator>on finance - mammoth // building nothing out of something</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 20:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=33#comment-130</guid>
		<description>[...] such as in Brennen&#8217;s SuperNeutral proposal? We tried to deal with this question in our proposal for a Luandan fog farming infrastructure.  While undoubtedly still an underdeveloped component of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] such as in Brennen&#8217;s SuperNeutral proposal? We tried to deal with this question in our proposal for a Luandan fog farming infrastructure.  While undoubtedly still an underdeveloped component of [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Roundup: New Biosphere Reserves, Energy Barn Raisings and Cloud Control &#124; EcoSilly</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/04/bkrt-essay-on-fog-nets-and-cities/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Roundup: New Biosphere Reserves, Energy Barn Raisings and Cloud Control &#124; EcoSilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 23:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=33#comment-122</guid>
		<description>[...] rain events toward certain building types – where, as mammoth&#8217;s own earlier paper about fog farming suggests, &#8220;fog nets&#8221; might capture a new water source for the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] rain events toward certain building types – where, as mammoth&#8217;s own earlier paper about fog farming suggests, &#8220;fog nets&#8221; might capture a new water source for the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: the city we have - mammoth</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/04/bkrt-essay-on-fog-nets-and-cities/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>the city we have - mammoth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 17:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=33#comment-59</guid>
		<description>[...] I have a number of minor quibbles with Galloway&#8217;s article (for instance: I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;d agree that there is no ecological reason to promote density, though I would agree that the dry formula &#8220;density=good, sprawl=bad&#8221; is simplistic), but he does a commendable job of teasing out two important and contradictorary threads, which are that the informal city, whether in the developing or the developed world, is (a) pregnant with possibility and (b) problematic and in need of intervention.  Becker and I would, obviously, like to think that it is exactly those contradictorary threads we were addressing with our recent project/essay on fog farming in Luanda. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I have a number of minor quibbles with Galloway&#8217;s article (for instance: I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;d agree that there is no ecological reason to promote density, though I would agree that the dry formula &#8220;density=good, sprawl=bad&#8221; is simplistic), but he does a commendable job of teasing out two important and contradictorary threads, which are that the informal city, whether in the developing or the developed world, is (a) pregnant with possibility and (b) problematic and in need of intervention.  Becker and I would, obviously, like to think that it is exactly those contradictorary threads we were addressing with our recent project/essay on fog farming in Luanda. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rholmes</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/04/bkrt-essay-on-fog-nets-and-cities/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>rholmes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=33#comment-12</guid>
		<description>Nile, I think the issues you raise are very important, but I have to disagree.

(1) While the intense concentration of people in a given location (such as Luanda) can produce problems, the people themselves are not and are never the problem.  I think this is an extremely important distinction: one phrasing ("people are the problem") implies that getting rid of people is the solution (an act of incredible rhetorical violence which is capable of producing actual violence), while the other ("the concentration of people can produce problems") allows us to admit that we need solutions without being cavalier about the humanity of the people whom we speak of.  I don't want to assume that you mean the former, but I want to make this point regardless of what you meant.

(2) That said, I'm not sure that "should Luanda grow" is a very important question for architects to address, as it would be purely rhetorical.  What I mean is that, even though our study of fog farming is entirely hypothetical, it is the sort of hypothetical project which could be realized through architectural practice: these nets could be refined in design, could be built, could be funded through the mixture of means we have suggested, and could be placed within the city by the mixture of actors we have suggested.  They interact with a problem -- the lack of clean water -- which is real &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; suggest a means by which architectural practice could address the problem.  While there may or may not be more people concentrated in Luanda than the ecology of the region can support, it is hard for me to see how overconcentration is a problem which landscape/architecture could address.

(3) Finally, I think Stephen is right that it is very difficult to assert that Luanda is too large when its infrastructure is so clearly lacking in ways which we have the technological tools to address.  When I see &lt;a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7762498@N02/460625509/sizes/o/" rel="nofollow"&gt;a photo&lt;/a&gt; of a street in the musseques serving as both sewer and street, I don't think: "too many people!" -- I think: "this is a problem which improvements in infrastructure could address".  I'll certainly allow that its possible that, even with the deployment of every technological tool at our disposal, Luanda still would not be able to provide adequately for the needs of its population -- but I don't think we have anything like the kind of information necessary to say that definitively.  Whereas we do have the information to say "if we made these improvements to the infrastructure of the city, we would improve the lives of the inhabitants in these ways".  Which is enough for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nile, I think the issues you raise are very important, but I have to disagree.</p>
<p>(1) While the intense concentration of people in a given location (such as Luanda) can produce problems, the people themselves are not and are never the problem.  I think this is an extremely important distinction: one phrasing (&#8221;people are the problem&#8221;) implies that getting rid of people is the solution (an act of incredible rhetorical violence which is capable of producing actual violence), while the other (&#8221;the concentration of people can produce problems&#8221;) allows us to admit that we need solutions without being cavalier about the humanity of the people whom we speak of.  I don&#8217;t want to assume that you mean the former, but I want to make this point regardless of what you meant.</p>
<p>(2) That said, I&#8217;m not sure that &#8220;should Luanda grow&#8221; is a very important question for architects to address, as it would be purely rhetorical.  What I mean is that, even though our study of fog farming is entirely hypothetical, it is the sort of hypothetical project which could be realized through architectural practice: these nets could be refined in design, could be built, could be funded through the mixture of means we have suggested, and could be placed within the city by the mixture of actors we have suggested.  They interact with a problem &#8212; the lack of clean water &#8212; which is real <em>and</em> suggest a means by which architectural practice could address the problem.  While there may or may not be more people concentrated in Luanda than the ecology of the region can support, it is hard for me to see how overconcentration is a problem which landscape/architecture could address.</p>
<p>(3) Finally, I think Stephen is right that it is very difficult to assert that Luanda is too large when its infrastructure is so clearly lacking in ways which we have the technological tools to address.  When I see <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7762498@N02/460625509/sizes/o/" rel="nofollow">a photo</a> of a street in the musseques serving as both sewer and street, I don&#8217;t think: &#8220;too many people!&#8221; &#8212; I think: &#8220;this is a problem which improvements in infrastructure could address&#8221;.  I&#8217;ll certainly allow that its possible that, even with the deployment of every technological tool at our disposal, Luanda still would not be able to provide adequately for the needs of its population &#8212; but I don&#8217;t think we have anything like the kind of information necessary to say that definitively.  Whereas we do have the information to say &#8220;if we made these improvements to the infrastructure of the city, we would improve the lives of the inhabitants in these ways&#8221;.  Which is enough for me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sbecker</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/04/bkrt-essay-on-fog-nets-and-cities/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>sbecker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 13:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=33#comment-11</guid>
		<description>Nile, thanks for your thoughts.  It's certainly true that the population of Luanda is currently unsustainable, and will get even more so if things remain unchanged.  However, I disagree with your assertion that the only solution Luanda has available is to limit its population size.

The amount of population a city can maintain has always been linked to technology and infrastructural sophistication.  It was farming technology which caused the development of cities in the first place.  Sewage technology resolved for London many of the sanitation issues now felt by Luanda, allowing that city grow while sustaining a previously unsustainable population.  I was in NYC yesterday, and it would have been a horrible experience if that city only had Luandan technology.

Your concern that the growth of  Luanda will always outpace it's water infrastructure (among others) is vital however, and I don't have an answer for it.  But I do believe an answer exists, and it may require the sort of temporary population tempering you advocate to allow population and technology to grow in synch; with the minimum human suffering possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nile, thanks for your thoughts.  It&#8217;s certainly true that the population of Luanda is currently unsustainable, and will get even more so if things remain unchanged.  However, I disagree with your assertion that the only solution Luanda has available is to limit its population size.</p>
<p>The amount of population a city can maintain has always been linked to technology and infrastructural sophistication.  It was farming technology which caused the development of cities in the first place.  Sewage technology resolved for London many of the sanitation issues now felt by Luanda, allowing that city grow while sustaining a previously unsustainable population.  I was in NYC yesterday, and it would have been a horrible experience if that city only had Luandan technology.</p>
<p>Your concern that the growth of  Luanda will always outpace it&#8217;s water infrastructure (among others) is vital however, and I don&#8217;t have an answer for it.  But I do believe an answer exists, and it may require the sort of temporary population tempering you advocate to allow population and technology to grow in synch; with the minimum human suffering possible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nile</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/04/bkrt-essay-on-fog-nets-and-cities/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Nile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=33#comment-10</guid>
		<description>Cities grow where there are geographical advantages (location, transport corridors) and resources (farmland, water). It is reasonable to ask why Luanda is growing, and whether the artificial factors that outweigh its disadvantages should be addressed, halting this unsustainable expansion.

I am not advocating a reliance on the 'natural' constraints to unsustainable growth - war and disease - but I fear that water riots and cholera will continue to be a feature of a city where extra water infrastructure never quite keeps up with population growth.

In short, the problem isn't water, it's people: and water shortages are a symptom which will not be cured without seeking humane ways of reducing the population in Luanda to sustainable levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cities grow where there are geographical advantages (location, transport corridors) and resources (farmland, water). It is reasonable to ask why Luanda is growing, and whether the artificial factors that outweigh its disadvantages should be addressed, halting this unsustainable expansion.</p>
<p>I am not advocating a reliance on the &#8216;natural&#8217; constraints to unsustainable growth - war and disease - but I fear that water riots and cholera will continue to be a feature of a city where extra water infrastructure never quite keeps up with population growth.</p>
<p>In short, the problem isn&#8217;t water, it&#8217;s people: and water shortages are a symptom which will not be cured without seeking humane ways of reducing the population in Luanda to sustainable levels.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rholmes</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/04/bkrt-essay-on-fog-nets-and-cities/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>rholmes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:14:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=33#comment-8</guid>
		<description>While I don't think "intractable" and "exegesis" mean exactly what Steve appears to think they mean (as best as I can tell from my, umm, exegesis of his comment), I think he's right about at least one thing: we do need to provide a link to the images at full resolution.  Images intended to be read at 8.5x11 are less than clear at 525px wide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I don&#8217;t think &#8220;intractable&#8221; and &#8220;exegesis&#8221; mean exactly what Steve appears to think they mean (as best as I can tell from my, umm, exegesis of his comment), I think he&#8217;s right about at least one thing: we do need to provide a link to the images at full resolution.  Images intended to be read at 8.5&#215;11 are less than clear at 525px wide.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sbecker</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/04/bkrt-essay-on-fog-nets-and-cities/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>sbecker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 22:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=33#comment-7</guid>
		<description>Steve, thanks for a proper welcoming to the internet.  Some of the issues you list above (small images / text, no citations) should no longer be so upon it's publication in a glossy next winter, but likely much will remain for you to be bitter about.  Be sure to stick around and keep us honest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, thanks for a proper welcoming to the internet.  Some of the issues you list above (small images / text, no citations) should no longer be so upon it&#8217;s publication in a glossy next winter, but likely much will remain for you to be bitter about.  Be sure to stick around and keep us honest.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Nordquist</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/04/bkrt-essay-on-fog-nets-and-cities/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Nordquist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 21:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=33#comment-6</guid>
		<description>Too bad it's intractable, cites nothing, lacks credentials (even the author's citation is blog-local), and contains images with text so small it -should have been- greeked.  It's just illegible, and there is neither alt text nor an accessible SVG or Flash (BTW haven't seen accessibility tools for that, just claims) graphics.   I hope a feral oxygen hound visits you on your freshness farm and tears you a new exegesis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too bad it&#8217;s intractable, cites nothing, lacks credentials (even the author&#8217;s citation is blog-local), and contains images with text so small it -should have been- greeked.  It&#8217;s just illegible, and there is neither alt text nor an accessible SVG or Flash (BTW haven&#8217;t seen accessibility tools for that, just claims) graphics.   I hope a feral oxygen hound visits you on your freshness farm and tears you a new exegesis.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Warren Ellis &#187; Links for 2009-04-13</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/04/bkrt-essay-on-fog-nets-and-cities/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren Ellis &#187; Links for 2009-04-13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=33#comment-5</guid>
		<description>[...] BKRT Essay: on fog nets and cities - mammoth&#34;The following is a study of a hypothetical water farming infrastructure for the arid city of Luanda, Angola; using fog harvesting nets with varying capabilities&#34;(tags:eco tech )      &#171; Me By Zo [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] BKRT Essay: on fog nets and cities - mammoth&quot;The following is a study of a hypothetical water farming infrastructure for the arid city of Luanda, Angola; using fog harvesting nets with varying capabilities&quot;(tags:eco tech )      &laquo; Me By Zo [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
