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	<title>Comments on: bulwarks and flux</title>
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	<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/06/bulwarks-and-flux/</link>
	<description>the herculez gomez of architecture blogs</description>
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		<title>By: de-damming the dutch delta &#8211; mammoth // building nothing out of something</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/06/bulwarks-and-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-263889</link>
		<dc:creator>de-damming the dutch delta &#8211; mammoth // building nothing out of something</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2011 23:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=453#comment-263889</guid>
		<description>[...] Mississippi Delta, American politicians, engineers, planners, and designers have, with good reason, looked to the Netherlands for inspiration and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mississippi Delta, American politicians, engineers, planners, and designers have, with good reason, looked to the Netherlands for inspiration and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: flooding, previously &#8211; mammoth // building nothing out of something</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/06/bulwarks-and-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-205004</link>
		<dc:creator>flooding, previously &#8211; mammoth // building nothing out of something</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2011 01:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=453#comment-205004</guid>
		<description>[...] 2. bulwarks and flux [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2. bulwarks and flux [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Design Culture &#187; Flood Hunting</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/06/bulwarks-and-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-11161</link>
		<dc:creator>Design Culture &#187; Flood Hunting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2010 16:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=453#comment-11161</guid>
		<description>[...] about bulwarking, the act of rambling through monumental flood protection infrastructure? Should be popular [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about bulwarking, the act of rambling through monumental flood protection infrastructure? Should be popular [...]</p>
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		<title>By: the new dutch water defense line - mammoth // building nothing out of something</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/06/bulwarks-and-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-4928</link>
		<dc:creator>the new dutch water defense line - mammoth // building nothing out of something</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=453#comment-4928</guid>
		<description>[...] fascinating oddities and, apparently, endless mammoth posts on Dutch hydrology.  As lewism noted on one such post, Bulwarks and Flux: &#8230;the whole of Dutch landscape and history can be seen as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] fascinating oddities and, apparently, endless mammoth posts on Dutch hydrology.  As lewism noted on one such post, Bulwarks and Flux: &#8230;the whole of Dutch landscape and history can be seen as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: readings: hydrologically situated infrastructures - mammoth // building nothing out of something</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/06/bulwarks-and-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-4156</link>
		<dc:creator>readings: hydrologically situated infrastructures - mammoth // building nothing out of something</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=453#comment-4156</guid>
		<description>[...] of stormwater infrastructure and public parks being previously praised by mammoth in both Texas and the Netherlands.  Waterpleinen is featured in the latest issue of Alphabet City, Water. Read Christie [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of stormwater infrastructure and public parks being previously praised by mammoth in both Texas and the Netherlands.  Waterpleinen is featured in the latest issue of Alphabet City, Water. Read Christie [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dan hill on the sentient city - mammoth // building nothing out of something</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/06/bulwarks-and-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-2836</link>
		<dc:creator>dan hill on the sentient city - mammoth // building nothing out of something</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=453#comment-2836</guid>
		<description>[...] (to own a piece of what Habermas or Ellul would call &#8216;technique&#8217;), we&#8217;ve ceded the big picture (and, with it, the really interesting work) to the accidental whims of the engineers (experts in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (to own a piece of what Habermas or Ellul would call &#8216;technique&#8217;), we&#8217;ve ceded the big picture (and, with it, the really interesting work) to the accidental whims of the engineers (experts in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: readings: on water - mammoth // building nothing out of something</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/06/bulwarks-and-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-552</link>
		<dc:creator>readings: on water - mammoth // building nothing out of something</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=453#comment-552</guid>
		<description>[...] and the vanished lakes of Mexico City, wondering whether the Netherlands provides an example of the coexistence of rigid and flexible strategies for flood management, and on bayous, floods, and indeterminacy in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and the vanished lakes of Mexico City, wondering whether the Netherlands provides an example of the coexistence of rigid and flexible strategies for flood management, and on bayous, floods, and indeterminacy in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: its prettiness and romance will then be gone - mammoth // building nothing out of something</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/06/bulwarks-and-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-523</link>
		<dc:creator>its prettiness and romance will then be gone - mammoth // building nothing out of something</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 02:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=453#comment-523</guid>
		<description>[...] long as I&#8217;m on the subject of urban parks that serve as components of flood management systems, I ought to mention the recent [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] long as I&#8217;m on the subject of urban parks that serve as components of flood management systems, I ought to mention the recent [...]</p>
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		<title>By: rholmes</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/06/bulwarks-and-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>rholmes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=453#comment-229</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Lewis.  That is a great point, which reminded me of something I had read recently,  in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/magazine/03european-t.html?pagewanted=2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;an article&lt;/a&gt; in the NYTimes Magazine:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The Dutch call their collectivist mentality and way of politics-by-consensus the “polder model,” after the areas of low land systematically reclaimed from the sea. “People think of the polder model as a romantic idea” and assume its origins are more myth than fact, Mak told me. “But if you look at records of the Middle Ages, you see it was a real thing. Everyone had to deal with water. With a polder, the big problem is pumping the water. But in most cases your land lies in the middle of the country, so where are you going to pump it? To someone else’s land. And then they have to do the same thing, and their neighbor does, too. So what you see in the records are these extraordinarily complicated deals. All of this had to be done together.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Obviously this history of collective action in response to the sea does not exist in the States, and any adaptation of the Dutch experience to the US flood control system ought to be done with an awareness of how differing historical experiences inform present conditions.

(Thanks for reminding me where I had read that, Stephen).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Lewis.  That is a great point, which reminded me of something I had read recently,  in <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/magazine/03european-t.html?pagewanted=2" rel="nofollow">an article</a> in the NYTimes Magazine:</p>
<blockquote><p>The Dutch call their collectivist mentality and way of politics-by-consensus the “polder model,” after the areas of low land systematically reclaimed from the sea. “People think of the polder model as a romantic idea” and assume its origins are more myth than fact, Mak told me. “But if you look at records of the Middle Ages, you see it was a real thing. Everyone had to deal with water. With a polder, the big problem is pumping the water. But in most cases your land lies in the middle of the country, so where are you going to pump it? To someone else’s land. And then they have to do the same thing, and their neighbor does, too. So what you see in the records are these extraordinarily complicated deals. All of this had to be done together.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Obviously this history of collective action in response to the sea does not exist in the States, and any adaptation of the Dutch experience to the US flood control system ought to be done with an awareness of how differing historical experiences inform present conditions.</p>
<p>(Thanks for reminding me where I had read that, Stephen).</p>
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		<title>By: USA Flood control system Should Go Dutch</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/06/bulwarks-and-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>USA Flood control system Should Go Dutch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=453#comment-223</guid>
		<description>[...] mammoth took this post and wrote an excellent article about the Dutch water management system, bulwarks and flux.  This entry was posted in Environment and tagged netherlands, usa. Bookmark the permalink. Post a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] mammoth took this post and wrote an excellent article about the Dutch water management system, bulwarks and flux.  This entry was posted in Environment and tagged netherlands, usa. Bookmark the permalink. Post a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: lewism</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/06/bulwarks-and-flux/comment-page-1/#comment-222</link>
		<dc:creator>lewism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=453#comment-222</guid>
		<description>Great post that I wish I&#039;d written myself, one thing to add is that the whole of Dutch landscape and history can be seen as a kind of resistance to and acknowledgement of the sea. The polder system which is on the surface just a land reclaimation sytem, is for a Dutchman something more. A political sytem, an ownership structure, a landscape. As your post so well implies to bring this to the u.S. is more than just to implement some mega projects and some planning rules but reconcieve how land and water thought of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post that I wish I&#8217;d written myself, one thing to add is that the whole of Dutch landscape and history can be seen as a kind of resistance to and acknowledgement of the sea. The polder system which is on the surface just a land reclaimation sytem, is for a Dutchman something more. A political sytem, an ownership structure, a landscape. As your post so well implies to bring this to the u.S. is more than just to implement some mega projects and some planning rules but reconcieve how land and water thought of.</p>
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