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	<title>Comments on: the atlantic on new orleans</title>
	<atom:link href="http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/10/the-atlantic-on-new-orleans/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/10/the-atlantic-on-new-orleans/</link>
	<description>building nothing out of something</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 03:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: J.D. Hammond</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/10/the-atlantic-on-new-orleans/#comment-3331</link>
		<dc:creator>J.D. Hammond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=960#comment-3331</guid>
		<description>"Geneva of the Caribbean"? It's not even particularly high-altitude. This metaphor is dangling towards Tom Friedman levels of mixed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Geneva of the Caribbean&#8221;? It&#8217;s not even particularly high-altitude. This metaphor is dangling towards Tom Friedman levels of mixed.</p>
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		<title>By: faslanyc</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/10/the-atlantic-on-new-orleans/#comment-3330</link>
		<dc:creator>faslanyc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=960#comment-3330</guid>
		<description>That New Orleans is a Caribbean city is not a notion original to Duany.  And Duany does seem to characterize all Caribbean cities badly with his "new orleans is the geneva of the caribbean".  What a rough metaphor.

The article was great though, it's journalistic thoroughness painted a good picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That New Orleans is a Caribbean city is not a notion original to Duany.  And Duany does seem to characterize all Caribbean cities badly with his &#8220;new orleans is the geneva of the caribbean&#8221;.  What a rough metaphor.</p>
<p>The article was great though, it&#8217;s journalistic thoroughness painted a good picture.</p>
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		<title>By: namhenderson</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/10/the-atlantic-on-new-orleans/#comment-3320</link>
		<dc:creator>namhenderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=960#comment-3320</guid>
		<description>Love this line;
"“Community has to be the new titanium"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love this line;<br />
&#8220;“Community has to be the new titanium&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: rholmes</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/10/the-atlantic-on-new-orleans/#comment-3319</link>
		<dc:creator>rholmes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=960#comment-3319</guid>
		<description>Ah.  I'd heard about that (though I didn't recognize the name), but didn't know Duany had any involvement in it.  Doesn't reflect too well, I don't think -- though the Owen Hatherly post you link to provides some interesting depth to the story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah.  I&#8217;d heard about that (though I didn&#8217;t recognize the name), but didn&#8217;t know Duany had any involvement in it.  Doesn&#8217;t reflect too well, I don&#8217;t think &#8212; though the Owen Hatherly post you link to provides some interesting depth to the story.</p>
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		<title>By: J.D. Hammond</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/10/the-atlantic-on-new-orleans/#comment-3300</link>
		<dc:creator>J.D. Hammond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 05:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=960#comment-3300</guid>
		<description>...Actually, I just discovered the stay might expire sooner than that. The collective was &lt;a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/08/europe_famous_berlin_squat_faces_closure/html/1.stm" rel="nofollow"&gt;foreclosed upon in 2008&lt;/a&gt; and the original owners have put the building back up for sale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;Actually, I just discovered the stay might expire sooner than that. The collective was <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/08/europe_famous_berlin_squat_faces_closure/html/1.stm" rel="nofollow">foreclosed upon in 2008</a> and the original owners have put the building back up for sale.</p>
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		<title>By: J.D. Hammond</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/10/the-atlantic-on-new-orleans/#comment-3299</link>
		<dc:creator>J.D. Hammond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 05:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=960#comment-3299</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunst_Haus_Tacheles" rel="nofollow"&gt;Kunsthaus Tacheles&lt;/a&gt; was a department store in east Berlin that was derelict and unrepaired after the war. It was a &lt;a href="http://nastybrutalistandshort.blogspot.com/2009/02/soi-disant-utopie.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;famous site for East German counterculture&lt;/a&gt;, then was &lt;a href="http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t124220.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;occupied by squatter punk artists&lt;/a&gt; when the Wall fell and eventually became &lt;a href="http://www.agamersodyssey.com/2009/05/17/kunsthaus-tacheles/" rel="nofollow"&gt;a focal point for the arts and counterculture&lt;/a&gt; in what was becoming reunified Germany's "poor-but-sexy" capital.

Duany wants to conduct an "historically sensitive redevelopment of a war-wrecked block in central Berlin." By which he means &lt;a href="http://www.cnu.org/node/510" rel="nofollow"&gt;he intends to turn it back into a department store&lt;/a&gt;. Pending legal disputes, however, he, erm, generously decided to &lt;a href="http://www.newurbannews.com/germany.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;wait ten years&lt;/a&gt; before he pushes the punks out. That stay expires in 2012.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunst_Haus_Tacheles" rel="nofollow">Kunsthaus Tacheles</a> was a department store in east Berlin that was derelict and unrepaired after the war. It was a <a href="http://nastybrutalistandshort.blogspot.com/2009/02/soi-disant-utopie.html" rel="nofollow">famous site for East German counterculture</a>, then was <a href="http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t124220.html" rel="nofollow">occupied by squatter punk artists</a> when the Wall fell and eventually became <a href="http://www.agamersodyssey.com/2009/05/17/kunsthaus-tacheles/" rel="nofollow">a focal point for the arts and counterculture</a> in what was becoming reunified Germany&#8217;s &#8220;poor-but-sexy&#8221; capital.</p>
<p>Duany wants to conduct an &#8220;historically sensitive redevelopment of a war-wrecked block in central Berlin.&#8221; By which he means <a href="http://www.cnu.org/node/510" rel="nofollow">he intends to turn it back into a department store</a>. Pending legal disputes, however, he, erm, generously decided to <a href="http://www.newurbannews.com/germany.html" rel="nofollow">wait ten years</a> before he pushes the punks out. That stay expires in 2012.</p>
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		<title>By: rholmes</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/10/the-atlantic-on-new-orleans/#comment-3298</link>
		<dc:creator>rholmes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 02:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=960#comment-3298</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Sandy:&lt;/b&gt;

No argument that New Orleans is rather different from other American cities, and perhaps I was harsher than I should have been in describing what I thought I liked as "accidental".  If I'm disposed to think of Duany as condescending, though, it's because, in my experience (apparently more limited than yours -- one lecture, a book, various interviews and comments in articles), I've found him to be rather dismissive of alternate viewpoints.  In this particular case, I thought both (a) the dismissal of Pitt's project as "bullshit" and (b) the characterization of New Orleans as by-nature "ill-governed... full of ill-educated people, with a great deal of crime, a great deal of dirt, a great deal of poverty", in a way that implied that those things should be accepted (that implication is what is particularly objectionable), could be described as condescending.  Which isn't to say that he couldn't also be empathetic; we all contradict ourselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Sandy:</b></p>
<p>No argument that New Orleans is rather different from other American cities, and perhaps I was harsher than I should have been in describing what I thought I liked as &#8220;accidental&#8221;.  If I&#8217;m disposed to think of Duany as condescending, though, it&#8217;s because, in my experience (apparently more limited than yours &#8212; one lecture, a book, various interviews and comments in articles), I&#8217;ve found him to be rather dismissive of alternate viewpoints.  In this particular case, I thought both (a) the dismissal of Pitt&#8217;s project as &#8220;bullshit&#8221; and (b) the characterization of New Orleans as by-nature &#8220;ill-governed&#8230; full of ill-educated people, with a great deal of crime, a great deal of dirt, a great deal of poverty&#8221;, in a way that implied that those things should be accepted (that implication is what is particularly objectionable), could be described as condescending.  Which isn&#8217;t to say that he couldn&#8217;t also be empathetic; we all contradict ourselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandy Sorlien</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/10/the-atlantic-on-new-orleans/#comment-3296</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandy Sorlien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 02:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=960#comment-3296</guid>
		<description>I have worked with Andres Duany in New Orleans and other cities affected by Katrina, and he is not being at all condescending. He has tremendous empathy with the less powerful - that's why he designs and develops housing (and zoning codes) for them.  (He shares this trait with Brad Pitt.)  What does "accidentally brilliant" mean? The notion that New Orleans is different from other American cities is simple - anyone who spends some time walking and conversing there can see that - but the idea that it is in fact a Caribbean city is brilliant. No accident...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have worked with Andres Duany in New Orleans and other cities affected by Katrina, and he is not being at all condescending. He has tremendous empathy with the less powerful - that&#8217;s why he designs and develops housing (and zoning codes) for them.  (He shares this trait with Brad Pitt.)  What does &#8220;accidentally brilliant&#8221; mean? The notion that New Orleans is different from other American cities is simple - anyone who spends some time walking and conversing there can see that - but the idea that it is in fact a Caribbean city is brilliant. No accident&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: rholmes</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/10/the-atlantic-on-new-orleans/#comment-3291</link>
		<dc:creator>rholmes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=960#comment-3291</guid>
		<description>What I thought might be accidentally brilliant was the recognition of the link between fuzzy legalities (poor ownership records, disinterest in building codes, etc.) and a culture oriented around leisure.  

But, that said, and while I don't know about what he did in Berlin, I think you're right to assume condescension (he's not far from saying "Lower standards for lower people!").</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I thought might be accidentally brilliant was the recognition of the link between fuzzy legalities (poor ownership records, disinterest in building codes, etc.) and a culture oriented around leisure.  </p>
<p>But, that said, and while I don&#8217;t know about what he did in Berlin, I think you&#8217;re right to assume condescension (he&#8217;s not far from saying &#8220;Lower standards for lower people!&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/10/the-atlantic-on-new-orleans/#comment-3289</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=960#comment-3289</guid>
		<description>I haven't.  Any particular link you would recommend, beyond a google search?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t.  Any particular link you would recommend, beyond a google search?</p>
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		<title>By: J.D. Hammond</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/10/the-atlantic-on-new-orleans/#comment-3287</link>
		<dc:creator>J.D. Hammond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=960#comment-3287</guid>
		<description>Duany? Given his track record, I'd assume condescension. Have you seen what he did with the Tacheles in Berlin?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duany? Given his track record, I&#8217;d assume condescension. Have you seen what he did with the Tacheles in Berlin?</p>
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		<title>By: rholmes</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/10/the-atlantic-on-new-orleans/#comment-3284</link>
		<dc:creator>rholmes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=960#comment-3284</guid>
		<description>Yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://m.ammoth.us/blog/2009/10/the-atlantic-on-new-orleans/#comment-3283</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://m.ammoth.us/blog/?p=960#comment-3283</guid>
		<description>Doesn't Bill live there now?  I'd love to hear his thoughts on this article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t Bill live there now?  I&#8217;d love to hear his thoughts on this article.</p>
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